Thursday, June 14, 2012

Yet Another Post About Sodomy By Fr. James Martin, S.J.

Archbishop Nienstedt
....rarer is the openly gay Catholic priest who speaks about issues related to homosexuality and homosexual activity.  That is why this ten-minute speech by Robert Pierson, O.S.B., a member of the Benedictine community at Collegeville, MN (and listed as a priest in good standing in the 2011 Official Catholic Directory) is so unusual.  Father Pierson, who had worked in campus ministry at St. John's University and is currently the director of the Spiritual Life Program at St. John's Abbey, speaks of his own homosexuality, his experience in ministering to gay and lesbian students, and then describes why he bas concluded that a Minnesota Catholic may vote "no" on a proposed state amendment that would prevent same-sex marriages.
In 2005, Father Pierson had resigned from his post as director of campus ministry after the Vatican officially barred men with "deep-seated homosexual tendencies" from ordination, and because of broader issues in the church's teaching. "Because I can no longer honestly represent, explain and defend the church's teaching on homosexuality, I feel I must resign," he said at the time
Needless to say, his comments on same-sex marriage are in direct opposition to the U.S. Catholic bishops, including Archbishop John Nienstedt of St. Paul and Minneapolis, who has vigorously supported the amendment (that is, opposing same-sex marriage) and asked parishioners in his archdiocese to recite a "A Prayer for Marriage" as part of the Prayers of the Faithful (petitionary prayers) at Masses.  The bishops could not be clearer in their opposition, which rests primarily on the Christian tradition of marriage as between a man and a woman (as well as on the church's opposition to homosexual activity).
Read the full post at America Magazine by Fr. James Martin, S.J. (here) 
The Churches teaching on the subject (here)

19 comments:

Katy Anders said...

As attitudes about gay folks and gay relationships continue to change (or "evolve", if our President's experience is to be believed), it is going to be fascinating to see how the Church handles this.

Because it's position is going to evolve... without looking as though it's changed...

Interesting times!

clement said...

we have had gay popes !!

Wake up !! wake up !!

clement said...

what would the church do without its sacred music ?
gays control that ! gay organist gay choir members !

the church would be nothing without the gays !

Bruce said...

I am waiting for Fr Martin to write about the Sacramental nature of marriage and the divine aspects of what is referred to as "one flesh". The homosexual man when he comes out of the closet he typically chooses to change his voice into an effeminate voice and switches voices depending on those he associates with at the time. A homosexual man tends to discriminates in whom he associates with and does business with. What is described as a homosexual man typically has self image problems, not sexual identity problems. The choice of sterility is choosing self love. Choosing to be sterile is not a virtue no matter what way you twist it.

Winston said...

In 1919, after Lenin had led the Soviets to slaughter the entire Russian royal family and then set up the Cheka (his own version of the Gestapo) to hunt down all opponents of Marxism, Winston Churchill like many westerners became aghast to hear the news. He told the cabinet that Lenin and Trotsky should be captured and hanged, “as the object upon whom justice will be executed, however long it takes, and to make them feel that their punishment will become an important object of British policy.”[2]

He told the Dundee electors that the Bolsheviks were reducing Russia “to an animal form of barbarism,” maintaining themselves by “bloody and wholesale butcheries and murders carried out to large extent by Chinese executions and armored cars. . . . Civilization is being completely extinguished[.]”

But perhaps Churchill’s most telling words were communicated to Lloyd George. Churchill wrote: “You might as well legalize sodomy as recognize the Bolsheviks.”[3]

Say what? Yes, you read that correctly. Winston Churchill, speaking for all of western society in his day, not only summarized the disdain people should feel toward the evils of Lenin’s Communism but also expressed how utterly unthinkable his generation considered legalized sodomy. Let alone celebrating it. He sensed sodomy was such an unquestionable evil that he felt confident in comparing it to something else he knew to be just as evil so as to effectively convey his moral outrage.

Where is the moral outrage of this generation? Today, in contrast we not only have legalized sodomy, but we celebrate sodomy along with communism publicly, as our new civil leaders encourage us. In this day of self-indulgence and ”tolerance,” we’re running short on the morally unthinkable.

http://americanvision.org/5931/winston-churchills-choice-words-for-gay-pride-month/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AmericanVision+%28American+Vision%29#.T9nT6pjhfNo

Anonymous said...

"What is described as a homosexual man typically has self image problems, not sexual identity problems."

Proof?

Is "sodomy" a sin for heterosexuals?

leo said...

bruce what makes you such a man ?

i can attest that myself and other gay men could physically reduce you to a pulp and that is a fact

id like to see who's voice is effeminate as my fist reaches your face

Anonymous said...

The Church isn't going to change it's position which is homosexuals are people whom we love but we think homosexual sex is a sin. A homosexual man who doesn't believe this shouldn't become a priest. A homosexual man who does believe homosexual acts are sinful can be a priest in my opinion. However, a homosexual man who is ambivalent about this will be a bad priest, he will be conflicted, his pain will be great. He won't change himself or the church. That is what is so hard.

Anonymous said...

'The Church isn't going to change it's position which is homosexuals are people whom we love but we think homosexual sex is a sin'

it is MY church and i do not think any kind of sexual intercourse between two consenting adults is a sin

St Peter is not going to pull out a rejection letter because of sexual acts performed in the bedroom.
What is going to matter and what should be emphasized is living the golden rule

Anonymous said...

Most people who are homophobic have deep seated homosexual tendencies

Sawyer said...

It's not anyone's Church but Christ's Church. He is the pre-existent Word of the Father, and his Spirit guides his Church and preserves it in teaching the truth about himself and about how human beings, made in the image of God, may live in union with the Trinity through communion with the Church, Christ's body.

Those who post here, and many who do not but who agree with their stances, who believe and live in ways gravely contrary to God's will, as revealed through Scripture and Tradition and as taught by the magisterium, which alone has the authority to teach in Christ's name, are jeopardizing their salvation.

It is as simple as that.

Life is short. Hell is eternal, and it is eternal misery. By separating yourself from Christ and his Church, by opposing Christ and his Church here on earth, you are heading down the path that ends at the gates of Hell.

Sin always appears and appeals under the guise of good. Do not be misled or -- worse -- do not deliberately rationalize evil by simplistic and erroneous appeals to "equality" or "compassion" or "the Golden Rule" or "love" or "evolving" or "progress".

Turn to Christ by turning to his Church. Christ heals blindness, he makes the lame to walk. He turns people's minds, hearts and wills away from evil to good, to God, to himself. That is his will for all of us. Let not one sheep be lost.

But as in the Parable of the Lost Son, his children must realize their folly and turn back to him. Then there will be great rejoicing in Heaven.

Turn back to Christ. Despite all your blustering, deep down inside there is discomfort with your beliefs and with your acts. That is the stirring of God's grace within you. Follow it, nurture it with Scripture and the Sacraments. Go to Confession frequently and receive the Eucharist worthily.

You will experience the joy and the peace that the world cannot give, the joy and peace of Christ.

Maria said...

The Value of Prayer and Sacrifice for Priests


"As long as I live, I will never forget the retreat of the late Fr. Daniel Lord gave us scholastics before our ordination. He recalled the episode of a conversation that Pope Pius had with Fr. Edmond Walsh, then of Georgetown who had just returned from a mission in Russia, where millions were starving because of the treachery of their Communist overlords. After the famine had abated, Fr. Lord was told to meet with the Holy Father. Late into the night Pope and Jesuit were in conversation over the conditions of the Church in that day. And the Pope asked Fr. Walsh who do you think are the greatest trials to the Church? Are they the persecutors, the Neros and Attilas, the Communists? The Pope answered his own question. No, they are unfaithful priests. It is no overstretch of language to say AS THE PRIESTHOOD GOES, SO GOES THE CHURCH.

We go on. In our day, more than I believe in any other day before, there are pressures on all those who wish to remain faithful to Christ such as were not experienced ever before. But the pressures are experienced by priests with a violence and a virulence such as no one else but a priest can understand. One saint after another has declared that the devil’s principal target on earth is the Catholic priest. Stands to demonic reason – if the devil can deceive and delude a Catholic priest and draw him away from Christ, what happens? What happens is what we see happening in our world today. Priests are subject to extraordinary temptations from the devil, first and mainly, but also from the world.


Why, then, pray for priests? Because through prayer we gain graces for them which otherwise they would not obtain. If we all need the help of one another, and we do to receive the graces we need, how much more should we pray for priests from whom we have received Jesus Christ in the Eucharist – and by whom we have been so often absolved from our sins. I don't want to even think of the state of soul I would be in except for the absolutions that over the years I have received from priests. As fellow members of the Mystical Body priests need, desperately need, our help and in no way more urgently than to obtain through the prayers we offer for them the graces from God of which, in my judgment, no one stands in greater need than do priests.


Why sacrifice for priests? Our prayer for priests should be joined with sacrifice. In other words, our prayer should be united with the practice of patience, selfless charity and mortification. Why? Because the most effective prayer is the prayer that costs – costly prayer, otherwise known as sacrificial prayer. How powerfully before the throne of God are the sufferings of the sick, the lonely, the abandoned, the poor, the crushed, offered up to God for our purpose, when offered up for priests.


After all, that is what a priest’s life is supposed to be, a life of sacrifice. By now I have told hundreds of priests, “Fathers you are not only to offer the Mass, you are to live the Mass.” But if priests are to be truly priestly, they need, how they need, to have the faithful to offer their own trials and temptations to obtain from the great High Priest, Jesus Christ, the light and strength that the priesthood demands."

Servant of God John Hardon SJ

Anonymous said...

"How powerfully before the throne of God are the sufferings of the sick, the lonely, the abandoned, the poor, the crushed, offered up to God for our purpose, when offered up for priests."

Well, sure Fr. Hardon, even the victims of sexual predators--including the one for whom you advised a cover-up. Amen.

Maria said...

Those priests who scandalize the faithful with their public support for sodomy should be mindful that Jesus admonished the bad Shepherds:

Ezekiel 34:5-6

5 And my sheep were scattered, because there was no shepherd: and they became the prey of all the beasts of the field, and were scattered.

6 My sheep have wandered in every mountain, and in every high hill: and my flocks mere scattered upon the face of the earth, and there was none that sought them, there was none, I say, that sought them


Strong words for the bad shepherds indeed.

The Good Shepherd acts altogether differently:

http://youtu.be/XiXGL5sEQPs

Maria said...

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

804. What are the “sins that cry to heaven”?

They are specially grievous and are commonly identified as:

the sin of the Sodomites;
the oppression of the Israelites in Egypt;

the cry of the stranger, the widow, and orphan; and injustice in wages.
(1867)

756. What are some causes of a blinded conscience?

There are many. Among others there are:

ignorance of Christ and His Gospel;
the bad example given by others;
slavery of the passions;
the pretense of a misunderstood autonomy of conscience;
refusal to accept the Church’s authority and teaching;
lack of moral conversion;
lack of charity toward God and one’s neighbor.


805. How do we cooperate in the sins of others?

We cooperate in other persons’ sins by:

direct and voluntary participation;

command, counsel, PRAISE, and APPROVAL;

not revealing or stopping sins when we are bound to do so;

protecting those who do evil.

1032. What is scandal?

Scandal is any action or omission, not necessarily sinful in itself, that leads another person to do something morally wrong.
(2284)

1033. What is the morality of scandal?

Scandal is a serious sin if by action or omission it deliberately induces others to do something gravely wrong.
(2284)

1034. How can scandal be provoked?

It can be provoked by the law, by institutions, fashion, or public opinion. ***Those in power who use their influence to produce evil are guilty of scandal.***

Catholic Catechism

Joseph Fromm said...

For Katy Anders

"Jesus is beautiful, Jesus is beautiful." These words were the arrows which pierced those hearts of stone"

Venerable Bernard Colnago, S.J.

Anonymous said...

Gays need to start their own church and quit attacking catholicism from the inside. Almost all the child molestation crap was done to boys (not girls). What does that tell you about the sick gay subculture in the church.


By the way- know how to tell if you're in a gay church? Only half the congregation is kneeling.

Anonymous said...

" gays need to start their own church " really ? vatican city would be a ghost town then except for the nuns .

Anonymous said...

What % of the collee of cardinals are "light in the loafers"?