Thursday, May 19, 2011

Fr. James Martin, S.J. On The Abuse Scandal

First of all, nearly every reputable psychologist and psychiatrist, not to mention almost every scholarly study, decisively rejects the conflation of hom@sexuality with p@dophilia, as well as any cause-and-effect relationship. The studies are almost too numerous to mention
Link (here) to read in context the above quote of Fr. James Martin, S.J. at In All Things

To read a total contradiction to this line of thinking read Steven Baldwin's, CHILD M@LESTATION AND THE H@MOSEXUAL MOVEMENT 

The Vatican document on h@mosexuals and seminaries (here)

Some excellent criticism (here) by George Weigal with an excerpt below, read the John Jay Report # 1 and the John Jay Report #2

Eighty-one percent of the victims of s@xual abuse by priests are adolescent males, and yet this has nothing to do with homosexuality? Perhaps it doesn’t from the clinicians’ point of view (especially clinicians ideologically committed to the notion that there is nothing necessarily destructive about same-s@x behaviors). But surely the attempt by some theologians to justify what is objectively immoral behavior had something to do with the disciplinary meltdown that the report notes from the late 1960s through the early 1980s; it might be remembered that it was precisely in this period that the Catholic Theological Society of America issued a study, Human Sexuality, that was in clear dissent from the Church’s settled teaching on fo@nication, self-abuse, and hom@sexual acts, and even found a relatively kind word to say about be@tiality. And is there no connection to be found between the spike in abuse cases between the mid-1960s and the early 1980s, with its victimization of adolescent males, and the parallel spike in hom@erotic culture in U.S. Catholic seminaries and religious orders in that same period?

To read a blistering attack on the "New Morality" published in the book entitled "Human Sexuality" by the Catholic Theological Society of America go (here)



Maria said...

St Peter Damian on the Subject of the Vice of Sodomy

"Without fail, it brings death to the body and destruction to the soul. It pollutes the flesh, extinguishes the light of the mind, expels the Holy Spirit from the temple of the human heart, and gives entrance to the devil, the stimulator of lust. It leads to error, totally removes truth from the deluded mind ... It opens up hell and closes the gates of paradise ... It is this vice that violates temperance, slays modesty, strangles chastity, and slaughters virginity ... It defiles all things, sullies all things, pollutes all things ... This vice excludes a man from the assembled choir of the Church ... it separates the soul from God to associate it with demons. This utterly diseased queen of Sodom renders him who obeys the laws of her tyranny infamous to men and odious to God... She strips her knights of the armor of virtue, exposing them to be pierced by the spears of every vice ... She humiliates her slave in the church and condemns him in court; she defiles him in secret and dishonors him in public; she gnaws at his conscience like a worm and consumes his flesh like fire. ... this unfortunate man (he) is deprived of all moral sense, his memory fails, and the mind's vision is darkened. Unmindful of God, he also forgets his own identity. This disease erodes the foundation of faith, saps the vitality of hope, dissolves the bond of love. It makes way with justice, demolishes fortitude, removes temperance, and blunts the edge of prudence. Shall I say more?"

Anonymous said...

@Maria -- what would you say/do if a child of yours or someone else you hold dear, say a brother or sister, came to you with the news that they were gay or lesbian? Would you throw them away from yourself? Cut off all contact? What?

Maria said...



"This Congregation wishes to ask the Bishops to be especially cautious of any programmes which may seek to pressure the Church to change her teaching, even while claiming not to do so. A careful examination of their public statements and the activities they promote reveals a studied ambiguity by which they attempt to mislead the pastors and the faithful. For example, they may present the teaching of the Magisterium, but only as if it were an optional source for the formation of one's conscience. Its specific authority is not recognized. Some of these groups will use the word "Catholic" to describe either the organization or its intended members, yet they do not defend and promote the teaching of the Magisterium; indeed, they even openly attack it. While their members may claim a desire to conform their lives to the teaching of Jesus, in fact they abandon the teaching of his Church. This contradictory action should not have the support of the Bishops in any way.

15. We encourage the Bishops, then, to provide pastoral care in full accord with the teaching of the Church for homosexual persons of their dioceses. No authentic pastoral programme will include organizations in which homosexual persons associate with each other without clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral. A truly pastoral approach will appreciate the need for homosexual persons to avoid the near occasions of sin.

We would heartily encourage programmes where these dangers are avoided. But we wish to make it clear that departure from the Church's teaching, or silence about it, in an effort to provide pastoral care is neither caring nor pastoral. Only what is true can ultimately be pastoral. The neglect of the Church's position prevents homosexual men and women from receiving the care they need and deserve.

An authentic pastoral programme will assist homosexual persons at all levels of the spiritual life: through the sacraments, and in particular through the frequent and sincere use of the sacrament of Reconciliation, through prayer, witness, counsel and individual care. In such a way, the entire Christian community can come to recognize its own call to assist its brothers and sisters, without deluding them or isolating them".

Anonymous said...

@Maria: Good luck with that.

Maria said...

Anonymous: It seems the Church disregards her own advice.

Card. Ratzinnger

"All support should be withdrawn from any organizations which seek to undermine the teaching of the Church, which are ambiguous about it, or which neglect it entirely. Such support, or even the semblance of such support, can be gravely misinterpreted. Special attention should be given to the practice of scheduling religious services and to the use of Church buildings by these groups, including the facilities of Catholic schools and colleges. To some, such permission to use Church property may seem only just and charitable; but in reality it is contradictory to the purpose for which these institutions were founded, it is misleading and often scandalous.

The Jesuits would do well to re-read this letter.

Anonymous said...

@Maria -- my question remains the same. What would YOU SAY and DO if a child of yours or someone else you hold dear, say a brother or sister, came to you with the news that they were gay or lesbian?

TonyD said...

God’s values are not our values. He allows us to use our free will to choose our values.

If someone lives in a community that holds the genuine community value of “competition measures merit”, then God recognizes that community value as a genuine community value. God judges people in that community by their alignment with His values – whether they practice “love your neighbor” and uphold the genuine values of their community. “Competition measures merit” is immoral from God’s perspective, and each of us is judged by God on an individualized scale of measurement. Still, if we reflect God’s values, we will uphold genuine community values. God knows our true thoughts and can measure our true alignment with His values.

This aspect of God’s values constrains revelation, prophecy, and the truths conveyed by Saints and Prophets. In choosing particular community values -- values unlike God’s -- and insisting on their truth, we distance ourselves from God.

Evil is real. We are all judged – even Bishops’ Councils and Popes. There is only one moral authority. That is God.

Maria said...

@Maria -- my question remains the same. What would YOU SAY and DO if a child of yours or someone else you hold dear, say a brother or sister, came to you with the news that they were gay or lesbian?

Padre: What is your name?

Maria said...

I would first of all pray with fervor for this person. I would ask for the interecessiono of Our Lady. I would say the rosary for this person. I would search for a faithful priest within one hundred miles of where this person lived and beg this priest to instruct, counsel and pastor this person. If I could find no such priest I would pray for one. I would recommend that they read: PERSONA HUMANA DECLARATION ON CERTAIN QUESTIONS CONCERNING SEXUAL ETHICS

The Church never leaves us in the lurch:


"Living the Christian life by following in the footsteps of Christ requires that everyone should "deny himself and take up his cross daily,"[42] sustained by the hope of reward, for "if we have died with Him, we shall also reign with Him."[43] In accordance with these pressing exhortations, the faithful of the present time, and indeed today more than ever, must use the means which have always been recommended by the Church for living a chaste life.


(1)discipline of the senses and the mind,
(2) watchfulness and prudence in avoiding occasions of sin,
(3) the observance of modesty,
(4)moderation in recreation,
(5) wholesome pursuits,
(6)assiduous prayer and frequent reception of the Sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist.

Young people especially should earnestly:

(7) foster devotion to the Immaculate Mother of God, and
(8) take as examples the lives of saints and other faithful people, especially young ones, who excelled in the practice of chastity.

We look to the Church to guide us.



TonyD said...

Discipline is not enough. Watchfulness, modesty, moderation, wholesomeness and prayer are not enough.

This issue brings-up the “do the ends justify the means” question. As readers of this blog know, there are centuries of Church writing on this topic. Does love for someone justify completely ignoring other aspects of their personality or behavior? The answer is that the ends sometimes justify the means, and sometimes don’t justify the means. Judgment is required. Specifically, God’s judgment is required.

We should know that we are not God, and lack the judgment to know what is in the heart of someone else – someone who may be closer to God than we are, regardless of our perception of their lifestyle. God’s commandment to “love your neighbor”, with the associated respect for their values, is rarely a bad choice in such situations.

We live in an interdependent society. Our personal decisions – personal use of free will – impacts others. We are responsible for using our judgment to recognize such impacts. Failure to recognize our impacts on our society are punished – often severely.

Bill T. said...

If my son became gay.

1. Don't bring the boyfriend home.
2. Leave the lisp at front door because it is affected and phony.
3. I would not condone immoral behavior because my job as a Catholic parent demands that he be taught the truth.
4. If he could not abide by these rules well then we are at an impasse.
5. If he said he wanted to become a Catholic priest, I would call the bishop and tell him my son is not suited for the priesthood.
6. Time for prayers and masses for his salvation.

Anonymous said...

@Maria -- my question remains the same. What would YOU SAY and DO if a child of yours or someone else you hold dear, say a brother or sister, came to you with the news that they were gay or lesbian?

Padre: What is your name?

Good one. I'm actually a woman, not a priest, but do have gay friends who came out to me after 30+ years of friendship. They are active in the Catholic church. As are some priests I know who are openly gay. When I say openly, I mean you can just tell in the way they talk, etc., and their flower-arranging skills are more than admirable. That is why I asked the question. I don't believe I could say to a friend of 30+ years that I don't want to see them anymore. That is all.

Bill T. said...

Dear Lady Anonymous,
Don't you think you have a responsibility to not condone Homosexuality? You become an accessory to the sin if you are not careful. If a friend of 30 years started to become addicted to drugs, would not you do something? Finally a friend and child are two different matters.

Maria said...

Anonymous @ May 22, 2011 5:07 AM--It would be easier if you could identify yourself. Communication is very difficult without without a name. It is what the church says and not what I say that matters. I think I have spoken and provided an answer.

Maria said...

Great Saints were once great sinners against chastity: Augustine, Ignatius, Margaret of Cortona. The life of St. Aloysius Gonzaga is instructive.

Saint Aloysius Gonzaga - Jesuit Saint

"Now some insights into Aloysius' spirituality. To the one virtue which the Church has chosen, and on account of which has chosen him 'the universal patron of youth', was his chastity. All the evidence we have indicates that he had very strong sexual passions. We know that from his own writing; we know that from people who knew him and we know that from what is called penance from one view-point, what is really, you might say 'preventive austerity' from another. He simply believed that unless he mortified his body, and I didn't tell you one tenth of what he did, he just would not get that passion under control. The lesson for us, in a sex-mad world, is obvious. You do not control that passion without mortification, you just don't. As a result, the Church has held him up as a model of what even the most passionate personality can achieve, always with God's grace, but not as we've said, more than once. We may not be able to, given our temperament of the circumstances in which we are living, we may not be able to cope with temptation--we need grace, very well, how do you get the grace? --through prayer and mortification. And Christ's words, remember? about a certain demon, not being able to be driven out except, remember? through penance. Well, it's a non-title to give the devil, but, he is the demon of lust; though being without a body himself, he knows, he knows, how by stirring this passion, he can lead people into any kind of sin. That's the first and towering lesson of the life of St. Aloysius.

That chastity is not easily preserved in any age and in our day, is humanly impossible without grace merited through prayer and penance. A good reason, a very good reason, for becoming a religious these days, I mean, of course, a good religious, a real religious, is to preserve oneself from the lust that we breath in a country like ours like the atmosphere".

John Hardon SJ

Go to the Saints Index and read the rest: Saint Aloysius Gonzaga - Jesuit Saint @

TonyD said...


I've read many of your comments. So I know that you are smart enough to read through that quote from Fr. Hardon and see all the assumptions about God, about Saints, about the role of the Church -- and all the generalizations about practices, grace, mortification, intrinsic qualities, and extrinsic qualities.

I'm just hoping that you are aware of the choices that you are making if you choose those particular interpretations. Your choices coexist with Church positions.

Maria said...

I'm just hoping that you are aware of the choices that you are making if you choose those particular interpretations. Your choices coexist with Church positions.

Hi Tony:
I don't understand what you are driving at. Can you help me ?

TonyD said...

I realize that I was vague. To be honest, that was intentional. I was vague because I’m trying not to describe any consequences to any specific interpretation. Everyone reading this blog can choose to believe anything that they want. Instead, I’m trying to point out our responsibility for our choices.

If you really believe that quote from Fr. Hardon, then you are choosing quite few interpretations. There are many inferences and specific paths of logic behind Fr. Hardon’s statements. Do those interpretations reflect your best judgment of the situation? Is that really how you want to define yourself before God?

So while I could probably write several pages of analysis about that quote, that analysis is not particularly relevant. What matters is what you are choosing to believe.

I think we both share a belief that the consequences are very real and very harsh – good intentions are rarely enough. I’m just saying be careful.


Anonymous said...