Sunday, July 22, 2012

Celebrity Jesuit Objects To The United States Constitution

The Second Amendment permits the private ownership of guns (though I doubt that the need for a “well-regulated militia” envisioned by the framers of the Constitution translates into easy access to assault weapons.)  But there is nothing to say that more stringent gun control laws that could prevent such horrible crimes cannot be judiciously balanced with constitutional rights. The Christian outlook on this of course has less to do with self-defense and more to do with the defense of the other person.  Jesus asks us to love our enemies, not to murder them; to pray for them, not to take vengeance; and he commends the peacemakers among us, not those advocating for more and more and more weapons.  Was Jesus naïve?  I wonder about that.  I often marvel how some Christians can say that in one breath, and proclaim him as the Son of God in the next.  Apparently, some believe that the Second Person of the Trinity didn’t know what he was talking about.  But Jesus lived in a violent time himself, under the heel of Roman rule in an occupied land, when human life was seen as cheap.  Jesus witnessed violence and was himself the victim of violence—the most famous person to suffer the death penalty.  It was not only divine inspiration but also human experience that led him to say: Blessed are the peacemakers.  Why am I saying this now?  Not because I want to score political points.  But because this week’s shootings horrified me, and reminded me of the need for religious people who stand for life, and for churches who stand for life, to stand for life at all times.  Why haven’t I written as much on other life issues?  Because the Catholic church’s stance on most of those issues is well known.  By contrast, religious leaders have seemed relatively silent on this other life issue.  Perhaps it is the kairos, as Jesus said: the right time, in this case for religious people to pray about these issues in a new light.
This stance will most likely be unpopular politically.  Some on the political right will object my stance on firmer gun control.  Some of the political left will object to my stance on abortion.  But that doesn't bother me, because I am not political.  I am religious.
Link (here) to the full post by Fr. James Martin, S.J. at the politically left leaning America Magazine.


Malchus said...

Fr. Martin conveniently leaves out of his argument that St. Peter carried a sidearm as he walked with Jesus. Fr. Martin makes another illogical argument. He wants to control or outright confiscate your weapons in order to eliminate or reduce murder, but he does not make the same argument about instituting scalpel control to eliminate or reduce abortions. Nor does he advocate eliminating cars to reduce traffic fatalities.

Maria said...


Besides articles Catholic publications like America, Commonweal, U.S. Catholic and The (London) Tablet, Father Martin has written for The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Boston Globe, The Chicago Tribune, The Philadelphia Inquirer and other national newspapers and websites, including, and The New York Times' website. He has commented on religion and spirituality in the national and international media, and he has appeared in venues as diverse as National Public Radio's "Fresh Air with Terry Gross," NPR's "Weekend Edition," PBS's "The Newshour with Jim Lehrer," Comedy Central's "The Colbert Report" and Fox News Channel's "The O'Reilly Factor," as well as on all the major networks, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, The History Channel, the BBC and Vatican Radio.

Oh, dear. Did they leave out the Huffington Post? The WaPo? Ummm, let's be honest: Fr. Martin is a political animal who labors, without surcease, in his mission to establish the homosexual kingdom in the Catholic Church. On odd days, he takes up gun control.
My goodness, how would we ever find our moral compass in this mass of immorality without him?

Katy Anders said...

If Father Martin DID object to the Constitution, he'd be far from the first catholic to do so (Syllabus of Errors, anyone?).

But it overlooks the fact that debating the values of the Constitution is OKAY! Every generation has to re-examine the values behind our society and we don't all have to agree in our conclusions.

I did some research on Just War Theory a while back, and it was informative. There really was a variety of opinion- even in Catholic circles, about the wisdom and morality of entering the post-9/11 wars, and people of good conscience disagreed.

Faith should inform these decisions, of course. But unlike my friend, Maria, above, I don't believe that everyone who does not agree with my politics is the enemy, the devil, or a false believer.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Maria what modern day priest do you respect and frankly what rock do you live under you certainly do not live in a major city have many friends or taste

Maria said...

TOTAL ABORTIONS SINCE 1973: 54,559,615

Father Martin sings all glory and praise for the LCWR nuns who support sodomy, abortion and contraception. A curious position for a Catholic priest.

My "politics", Katy? No. These are not my personal, political inclinations. Catholic Church teachings unambiguously denounce sodomy, abortion and contraception. Let us be clear: support for sodomy, abortion and contraception is most assuredly the work of the enemy. Make no mistake about it.

Maria said...

HOW DARE I MAKE SUCH AN ALLEGATION? Fr. Martin is hoisted on his own petard my friend:


America Magazine What Should a Gay Catholic Do?
Nov 13, 2009 ... Author: James Martin, S.J.. Here's a real pastoral question to consider: What place is there for the gay person in the Catholic Church?

It's Not About Homosexuality: Blaming the Wrong People for the Sexual Abuse Crisis

The Vicar of Christ and My Gay Friend -

John Jay Report: On Not Blaming Homosexual Priests

Gays and the Church: Two Stories from Today

Maria said...

Colbert's Chaplain on “Respect, Compassion, and Sensitivity

Here is a comment on this article by none other than Francis DeBernardo, Executive Director at New Ways Ministry (whose comments are always welcome by James Martin at America Magazine’s blog called “In All Things”): I’ve only offered highlights here. The entire posting is worth a thoughtful read. “Too often, we only hear negative messages about LGBT people from church leaders and commentators. It’s refreshing and uplifting to read something positive from one of Catholicism’s most respected writers and commentators. Thank God for Fr. Martin!”

Here is Fr. Martin supporting the ‘It Gets Better Project”—sounds very “Christian” but what he is really saying, essentially, is that the Catholic Church hates homosexuals and he is here to apologize for the Church:

“The “It Gets Better Project” describe themselves thusly:
The” It Gets Better Project” was created to show young LGBT people the levels of happiness, potential, and positivity their lives will reach – if they can just get through their teen years. The “It Gets Better Project” wants to remind teenagers in the LGBT community that they are not alone — and it WILL get better.

What is the It Gets Better Project?
In September 2010, syndicated columnist and author Dan Savage created a YouTube video with his partner Terry Miller to inspire hope for young people facing harassment. In response to a number of students taking their own lives after being bullied in school, they wanted to create a personal way for supporters everywhere to tell LGBT youth that, yes, it does indeed get better.
The It Gets Better Project™ has become a worldwide movement, inspiring more than 40,000 user-created videos viewed more than 40 million times. To date, the project has received submissions from celebrities, organizations, activists, politicians and media personalities, including President Barack Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Rep. Nancy Pelosi, Adam Lambert, Anne Hathaway, Colin Farrell, Matthew Morrison of "Glee", Joe Jonas, Joel Madden, Ke$ha, Sarah Silverman, Tim Gunn, Ellen DeGeneres, Suze Orman, the staffs of The Gap, Google, Facebook, Pixar, the Broadway community, and many more. For us, every video changes a life. It doesn’t matter who makes it.
Archives for The Eponymous Flower » EXPOSE LIARS.COM > THE ...

What is a Catholic response to gay suicide? ***THIS ARTICLE ALSO APPEARED IN NEW WAYS MINISTRY NEWSELTTER VOLUME 30, NO.4 WINTER 2010-2011***uati of Vol. 0, No. 4 New Ways Ministry Winter 2010-11

Rev. James Martin, S.J.: 'A Prayer When I Feel Hated': Helping ...
USCCB Condemns New Ways Ministry; Gay Ministry Responds

Hingham, Same-Sex Marriage, and Life Issues**ALSO PUBLISHED MAY 17, 2010 AT NEW WAYS MINISTRY VOL 30, NO. 2***

Anonymous said...

Maria seems to be the sort of person who loves the Church but hates the people who make it up.

It must be tough being the only REAL Catholic around! She lowers the level of the conversation to hate and insults every time she steps in.

Katy Anders said...

Maria, I am not going to let you ruin another conversation (you seem to want to dominate the discussion every time with your unilateral condemnations and gross misinterpretations of Church doctrines).

But I will point out that this particular blog post is not about ANY of those things you listed.

This would be a great forum if not for your bitterness and spite.

Maria said...

Catholic priests and nuns who support sodomy, contraception and abortion are the real face of loving Catholics. Okie Dokie.

Maria said...

Christ was crystal clear, Katy. He said "if you love me, keep my commandments". He did not say "if you love me, break my commandments". Fr. Martin's support for positions antithetical to the faith have everything to do with this article on gun control. Christ did not say "keep the commandments you are feel like keeping".

Katy Anders said...

However, Christ was also decidedly not a troll, Maria, whereas, you absolutely ARE. There's simply no other way to describe what you do on this sit.

Some folks are able to use their faith as a source of love and strength, and their example inspires others.

You use it as an excuse to spread hate and bitterness, and don't even appear to have the courtesy to do so on a site of your own.

I pray that you might discover a faith that does more than give you an excuse to spread your vitriol.

Anonymous said...

Good for you Katy! Had to be said. I hardly stop by here anymore because Maria can't lay well with others. Why can't she do it on her own site?

Maria said...

The Big Gay tactics---Hate Vitriol Bitterness. Take a look in the mirror.

Katy Anders said...

It saddens me that you do this, Maria. You cast a very negative and counterproductive shadow here.

I pray that you someday find the love of Jesus to counter the hate that weighs you down that that you try to take out on others.

The Watcher said...

Why is that fake Christian Maria allowed to keep doing this? I hate to see this blog get pulled down by one person like this. Bye.

Maria said...

The Big Gay Army. The soul of charity.

Katy Anders said...

I am confused and a bit disappointed by your repeated references to a Big Gay Army in your interactions with me.

I am not bringing up my private life with you, and yet you deem it worthy of injecting into the conversation.

However, since you brought it up... I'm not representing any gay agenda here. I am speaking for myself.

It has been difficult to deal with my family AND my faith in light of some of the folks on either side and their penchant to hurl stones at one another. I have found my faith despite the better efforts of those folks.

Although I'm generally pretty strong, I thank God I have fund people willing to help me along in a positive way.

You are a negative force here, but I will simply NOT let it ruin what there is to be learned from the site.

However, you are an AWFUL person. Rethink your approach!

Maria said...

The Watcher says:

March 23, 2012 at 12:33 PM
The United Nations also disagrees with you, Hidalgo.

This is a human rights issue.

You can disagree. But that does place you on the side of Islamic radicalists. Bob Jones University. And Ken Smith.

The fact that you focus on slavery and ignore arguments about gay people being beaten and not having the same rights as next of kin, etc, simply reveals your own biases and how little serious attention you’re willing to pay the subject.

Finally, you and Ken Smith are find of referring to gay people as people who define themselves chiefly by their sexuality. Ken to the point of being somewhat obsessive on the matter.

You’re wrong.

It’s fundamentalists and other bigots who define gay people by their sexuality. It’s people like Ken who highlight the sexual positions they find immoral (often in lurid detail), instead of acknowledging that gay people are simply people who love people of the same gender. Love people the same way you love your wife, Hidalgo. Gay people just want to be treated like anyone else. Until they are, they have a right to fight for their rights. Having the rights of next of kin isn’t asserting their sexuality. It’s asking to be recognized simply as the long-term partner in an individual’s life.

For those who would like to use their Bibles to claim that gay rights can’t be compared to the fight for civil rights for African Americans, you’re on dangerous ground, not me. The Bible has been used to justify slavery, the oppression of women and … the stoning of gay people. You’re barking up the wrong tree. It’s quite possible to believe the Bible is riddled with bigotry. So, your arguments hold no water with those of us who don’t give the Bible the same authority you do. And this is not a theocracy. It’s a democracy. So argument which affect public policy should be made from a rational, ethics-based point of view. Do we have to respect people with religious beliefs? Sure. But we don’t have to respect all of their beliefs. Especially not those beliefs we believe we can prove empirically are damaging to our fellow human beings.

Additionally, Hidalgo, you act as if this is a simple binary situation: The gays against BJU. It’s not. It’s the gay children of people often still associated with BJU, as well as their friends, who are seeking to find common ground, reaching out, trying to find an equilibrium. It’s gay people who find themselves in awkward, intensely painful situations, trying to be themselves, yet causing their parents and loved ones unnecessary pain. *That’s* why they’re trying to change their minds on this particular issue. I don’t think you can begin to imagine the pain they feel on a daily basis, simply trying to live their lives with some dignity. You’re asking them to just shut up and move on with their lives. That’s works for some people, but it also does help bring about much real, meaningful change.

Finally, if you want to use the word “force” – go ahead. You’re changing the subject, but there’s some validity to it. The government has also “forced” states to allow black people and women the right to vote. When one person’s religious beliefs breech another person’s individual liberties, then our government has a right to put a stop to that. That’s what makes this the United States.

It’s a free country, so you can tell gay people to shut up. They don’t have to listen. And they do get to point out where you’re not making sense. Which lately is quite often.

Alrighty then, Watcher.

Restore-DC-Catholicism said...

Father Martin fails to consider that legitimate self defense is not equivalent to murder. In fact, such self defense prevents murder. And why all this hyperventilating about Maria's statements? So she presents another viewpoint. Katy Anders, for you to call Maria a "hateful person" is simply childish and petulant. I must say, too, that this demonstrates that indeed those who tout progressive stances are, by and large, the intolerant ones.

Occupy Heterosexual Avenue said...

Homosexuality is a learned behavior. The 1% percent of people who practice homosexuality need to remember that 99% of us don't engage in these shenanigans. Stop inflicting your hedonism on the rest of the world.

Katy Anders said...

Hi, Restore-DC: I am sorry that you disagree as to my work choice, and I do look forward to our interacting under more positive circumstances.

Anonymous said...

Maria wrote: OTAL ABORTIONS SINCE 1973: 54,559,615

Wow--that's alot. My question: why are you blogging here instead of engaging in all manner of opposition. Unless. . .this is just the typical pro-life posturing.

Joseph Fromm said...

I like you all. Thank you all for visiting this blog. Lets keep on subject. Nobody has to agree with each other. Do not attack each other. Fr. Martin is a public figure who wrote this article to stir it up. If you go over the line in indecency I'll delete your comments.