tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post4023731730065333715..comments2024-01-16T19:31:28.762-05:00Comments on Good Jesuit, Bad Jesuit: No Objective Rules Of MoralityJoseph Frommhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16759274486679530625noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-89453246080443452002013-09-17T15:56:57.796-04:002013-09-17T15:56:57.796-04:00Religion is a personal thing. One can choose wheth...Religion is a personal thing. One can choose whether he wants to read FR Tony or Osho or anyone else for that matter. I like his way of thinking<br />Al;ex D'Mellonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-73028111930538683842010-03-03T21:56:17.003-05:002010-03-03T21:56:17.003-05:00There are certain Jesuits who would rather argue, ...There are certain Jesuits who would rather argue, about anything, than accept the direction of the CDF. Anything but submitting their intellect to the Pope. Anything, but obedience. Anything, but srengthening faithful hearts. Why? They will not humble their heart and mind before God. They have forgotten their lowly place in the order that God, not the Jesuits at America Magazine, created.Marianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-4872094628918828442010-03-03T19:24:01.250-05:002010-03-03T19:24:01.250-05:00Young people (13-35) are very vulnerable and thus ...Young people (13-35) are very vulnerable and thus there should be no ambiguity where there need not be. It's ambiguous to have heretical books going around with imprimaturs, and it gives ammunition to people such as the one I've been contending with here. How would a 13-22 year old have fought off one of these guys shoving an imprimatur on his face at one the hundreds of Jesuit 'catholic' schools?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-27788898247416996782010-03-03T18:51:11.742-05:002010-03-03T18:51:11.742-05:00Are you serious?
With the number of Bishops in ...Are you serious?<br /> <br /><br />With the number of Bishops in the world who are teaching heresy, if they revoked every impramatur of every heretic, they'd have time for nothing else. <br /><br />With all of the heresies being fed to the poor lambs, the fact that the Vatican went out of their way to warn the sheep is remarkable. <br /><br />The notification trumps any imprimatur a Jesuit (no surprise there) slapped on DeMello's rubbish.<br /><br />Any rational person who is educated on their faith could see the spiritual guidance is the antithesis of Christ. <br /><br />Some other poor misguided Jesuit on America has some dame with a serpent wrapped around her body and in the background some kind of a multi-legged two-headed animal/person with diadems with some of the strangest reflections I've ever read. <br /><br />I feel so sorry for the people being brainwashed with this tripe.<br /><br />You know, the Vatican hasn't said priests can't celebrate the Eucharist in his mother's pearls and high heels either but sane people know the omission isn't constructive permission. Something the Jesuits have had difficulties with for forty years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-51786125802758138612010-03-03T16:11:45.531-05:002010-03-03T16:11:45.531-05:00Evidently you wish to follow Anthony de Mello notw...Evidently you wish to follow Anthony de Mello notwithstanding the Vatican's warning that, according to your idol: "Christ cannot but impede one's personal access to truth."<br /><br />Undoubtedly the Vatican's 1998 warning will be enough for most Catholics.<br /><br />However, for those like you who prefer the anti-Christ, what will be sufficient? The formality of revoking an obviously bogus imprimatur? <br /><br />Then let it be as you have asked. May the Vatican revoke it, without delay, if indeed it has not already done so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-82162648606473560092010-03-03T15:52:45.938-05:002010-03-03T15:52:45.938-05:00I love it--now an imprimatur is no longer sufficie...I love it--now an imprimatur is no longer sufficient!! You do know that the imprimatur can be revoked by the Vatican if they find sufficient cause, right? Never mind, I have a feeling that facts are going to change your mind since you are quite settled on this (although I doubt that you've read a word of his work).<br /><br />So, no Vatican statement of heresy and books containing imprimatur but you have continued on with this reckless talk. Good bye.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-13547604071329935202010-03-03T15:07:56.381-05:002010-03-03T15:07:56.381-05:00I'll help you with my request just to make sur...I'll help you with my request just to make sure that my point is clear to the world.<br /><br />"Sadhana, a Way to God: Christian Exercises in Eastern Form"<br />by Anthony de Mello<br /><br />Imprimi Potest<br />Bertram Philipps S.J.<br />Prep. Prov. Bomb.<br /><br />Imprimatur<br />C.Gomez S.J.<br />Bishop of Ahmedabad<br /><br />January 24, 1978<br /><br /><br />Approved by 2 JESUITS, his superior and the local Jesuit bishop! <br /><br />Isn't that something?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-9944921442552408492010-03-03T14:53:38.104-05:002010-03-03T14:53:38.104-05:00Regarding your contention that "they most cer...Regarding your contention that "they most certainly could retract their imprimatur and they have not", surely you understand that the Vatican didn't provide the Imprimatur; some bishop did. There are around 5000 bishops and one was even excommunicated last year.<br /><br />Yes, I did read your post and that's why I responded as I responded. If you are having a problem with my response, please let me know what is not sufficiently clear for you.<br /><br />Otherwise, please provide the information requested. Thanks very much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-75530357505818479402010-03-03T14:03:13.384-05:002010-03-03T14:03:13.384-05:00Re. "imprimatur"--use your Goggle search...Re. "imprimatur"--use your Goggle search on the Amazon website.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-59991863787737682512010-03-03T13:35:12.573-05:002010-03-03T13:35:12.573-05:00Here's my previous post--did you actually resp...Here's my previous post--did you actually respond to these points?<br /><br />They could do a number of things that would indicate heresy and they have not. They most certainly could retract their imprimatur and they have not. <br /><br />You are mistaken in interpreting their "Notification" as a declaration of heresy. I'm not certain why you continue with this raw self-assertion. I'd be happy to respond to any new and valid information you have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-50387845867394245152010-03-03T13:04:29.861-05:002010-03-03T13:04:29.861-05:00Here's my previous post--did you actually resp...Here's my previous post--did you actually respond to these points?<br /><br />They could do a number of things that would indicate heresy and they have not. They most certainly could retract their imprimatur and they have not. <br /><br />You are mistaken in interpreting their "Notification" as a declaration of heresy. I'm not certain why you continue with this raw self-assertion. I'd be happy to respond to any new and valid information you have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-35787890186121825262010-03-03T12:21:09.167-05:002010-03-03T12:21:09.167-05:00...and please kindly include the publication date ......and please kindly include the publication date and edition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-71952998890530867652010-03-03T12:14:50.047-05:002010-03-03T12:14:50.047-05:00You don't tell us which of De Mello's book...You don't tell us which of De Mello's books have imprimaturs and the publication dates for their first editions.<br /><br />Nor do you tell us who the imprimatur was. Another Jesuit perhaps?<br /><br />The Vatican's Notification is dated June 24, 1998. It trumps any particular bishop's previous endorsement, for the Pope is the ultimate human authority for Christ's church on earth.<br /><br />Furthermore, the Notification states in a footnote: "Not all the works of Father de Mello were authorized for publication by the author himself. Some were published after his death based on his writings, or on notes or recordings of his conferences."<br /><br />http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFDEMEL.HTM<br /><br />Therefore, which of de Mello's works are you referring to and who is the imprimatur?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-16536775732468257902010-03-03T12:01:46.779-05:002010-03-03T12:01:46.779-05:00Isn't the real question here that when the Vat...Isn't the real question here that when the Vatican informs the sheep to stear clear of spiritual guides and resources that will guide your spirit away from Christ, the Jesuits are right there wordsmything their guidance? <br /><br />They're right there to distract the people under their tutelege into pagan rituals and heresey?<br /><br />There right there trying to debunk the Catechism to encourage homosexuality and abortion?<br /><br />They're right there attacking and demoralizing people trying to enlighten people being suckered into spiritual decay?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-2974383819510508892010-03-02T23:18:13.793-05:002010-03-02T23:18:13.793-05:00They could do a number of things that would indica...They could do a number of things that would indicate heresy and they have not. They most certainly could retract their imprimatur and they have not. <br /><br />You are mistaken in interpreting their "Notification" as a declaration of heresy. I'm not certain why you continue with this raw self-assertion. I'd be happy to respond to any new and valid information you have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-84542082619438011342010-03-02T21:43:19.690-05:002010-03-02T21:43:19.690-05:00CORRECTION LAST PARAGRAPH - PREVIOUS POST
How in ...CORRECTION LAST PARAGRAPH - PREVIOUS POST<br /><br />How in the world can you claim that the Vatican does not consider him a heretic? What do you want everyone to think: that the Vatican considered De Mello a Catholic thinker? A pastor?<br /><br />Please.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-74265779986105972882010-03-02T21:39:39.454-05:002010-03-02T21:39:39.454-05:00The Vatican can't tell bookstores what to sell...The Vatican can't tell bookstores what to sell or Catholics what to read. It can however tell Catholics what is not compatible with the Catholic faith, or heresy, as it did in its notification. <br /><br />Indeed, the Vatican told Catholics that according to De Mello:<br /><br />--"Christ cannot but impede one's personal access to truth."<br /><br />---the word of God in Holy Scripture is "an idol" and God has been "banished from the temple". <br /><br />---the Vatican has "...lost the authority to teach in the name of Christ."<br /><br />How in the world can you claim that the Vatican does not consider him a heretic? What do you want to everyone to think: that the Vatican considered De Mello: a Catholic thinker? A pastor?<br /><br />Please.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-91000037904232296882010-03-02T21:02:07.252-05:002010-03-02T21:02:07.252-05:00I'm sorry you refuse to recognize what the Vat...I'm sorry you refuse to recognize what the Vatican did and the fact that they did not "ban" his books and declare them heresy (you are confusing excommunication which is something else). <br /><br />Since his death they have had ample opportunity to do so and to revoke the imprimatur but they have not done so.<br /><br />It seems very important to you that he be branded a heretic even if he hasn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-65152469964254467272010-03-02T20:59:04.450-05:002010-03-02T20:59:04.450-05:00I'm sorry that you are refusing to acknowledge...I'm sorry that you are refusing to acknowledge the fact that the Vatican could have "banned" his books and declared them heresy. They did not & his death has nothing to do with it (the imprimatur on his books is still in place for goodness sakes!). What he did receive was a rebuke for some selected parts of his later work.<br /><br />You may think it is heresy but please don't pretend that the Vatican has done so.<br /><br />I'm happy to carry on with this but exchange but it does seem stuck in a rut.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-40623829036882804112010-03-02T17:40:00.332-05:002010-03-02T17:40:00.332-05:00The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith'...The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith's purpose is to comnbat heresy and, as you know, it judged De Mello's positions as "incompatible with the Catholic faith."<br /><br />That, according to St. Thomas' definition, is heresy.<br /><br />The pope didn't get to excommunicate him, but that would likely have been next had he not retracted (which he didn't, to my knowldege), and had he not died (which he did).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-58785388613086234232010-03-02T14:51:54.651-05:002010-03-02T14:51:54.651-05:00Sounds like a reasonable definition--and the Vatic...Sounds like a reasonable definition--and the Vatican will call it that if they think it is heresy. Once again, they haven't done that in DeMello's caseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-16981921532069222672010-03-02T14:47:22.055-05:002010-03-02T14:47:22.055-05:00Th catholic encyclopedia says: "St. Thomas (I...Th catholic encyclopedia says: "St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: 'a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas'."<br /><br />http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-59629254148368100212010-03-02T13:05:59.735-05:002010-03-02T13:05:59.735-05:00"This is an open forum and anyone can respond..."This is an open forum and anyone can respond to anyone": Of course it is, but you seemed miffed that I was responding to Maria and I wanted to clarify that I had her post in mind when I wrote my reply. You're being overly sensitive. <br /><br />It's not my responsibility to define heresy since I didn't assert that Fr. DeMello was a heretic. But if you think there's a fruitful debate to be had by defining terms go right ahead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-40039869200281151592010-03-02T12:12:08.495-05:002010-03-02T12:12:08.495-05:00This is an open forum and anyone can respond to an...This is an open forum and anyone can respond to anyone.<br /><br />I asked you to prove: "If Rome thinks that you are a heretic it actually will say, "You are engaging in heresy." In other words, prove that this is the only way someone, or some belief, is deemed heretical by the Vatican.<br /><br />I also asked you to define heresy.<br /><br />I didn't ask you to prove he wasn't a heretic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44918019052750220.post-80218679632904545342010-03-02T00:23:34.821-05:002010-03-02T00:23:34.821-05:00My comments were directed to Maria.
You've go...My comments were directed to Maria.<br /><br />You've got the proof thing backwards, i.e., I never claimed he was a heretic so I don't have the burden of proof.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com